Tremendous read. The useful safety catch of our own thoughts being the acknowledgment we could be wrong and may not have all of the available facts and there are different ways to interpret what we’ve just seen. Excellent stuff.
Excellent article as ever Matt, I’m looking forward to the sequel running fast and slow by Elanga and Woltemade, my thought is that Eddie actually is trying to evolve and will probably get there , but our summer recruitment remains crucial to top 6 prospects
Great article Matthew. It epitomises why I love reading TF rather than other social media coverage. Intelligent, informed, thoughtful and well argued. Thankyou!
Excellent piece Matthew. I will read it again and reconsider it all ;).
The bit about bias is particularly relevant with people exonerating Hall because he was played on the wrong side and blaming Pope for the goal because he stood still. It's actually what they're coached to do in those situations- make yourself big.
I’m guilty of that bias. I’m more forgiving of Big Nick than I am of Elanga & Missa Wissa. Because I like him & feel sorry for him! There’s no logic to that.
Great article. Interesting and thought provoking. I have to say that I’ve thought long and hard about Woltemade throughout the season and always come to the same conclusion - he’s not suited to Premier League football. His lack of agility, aggression and pace mean that he’s playing catch up. Literally.
Excellent. I hope everyone employs a bit of slow-thinking on Sunday, in what is now the beginning of our rebuild, but do-or-die for West Ham. Great stuff Matthew.
I always enjoy reading your pieces Matthew but I'm afraid you've discombobulated my old brain on this one. I'm sure Kahneman was top man in his field but football is a simple game. Complicating it has become a trait of modern life and in my mind you're doing exactly that by applying the findings of an eminent psychologist to a group of men kicking a ball around. I hate what football has become and much prefer the old days when we went to a match, discussed it in the pub afterwards, read the Football Pink then watched MOTD. No pundits talking shite just Kenneth Wolstenhome commentating on the action. Not passing on his opinion upon us just commentating so we could make our own decisions. Read about it next morning in the papers, particularly the Sunday Sun, talked about it at work on Monday then nowt until the next match. No psychologists, no pundits, no fucking Sky, no keyboard warriors etc. etc. Bliss.
By the way what would Kahneman say about working people voting for a man who intends demolishing most of the things they have fought for over the years.
Fair enough, Paul! I've got a lot of sympathy for that view. I was never happier than on the last bus home on a Saturday reading the Pink!
Maybe the point is that if people are going to comment in public (pundits and social media), it would be nice if they thought about it and acknowledged how little they know first. Most pundits never watch nufc play but talk about us as if they're experts, trotting out the usual ill-informed cliches. Silence would be preferable, you're right.
As for your last question, I think populism probably depends entirely on triggering those short circuits of thought which ignore the difficult questions.
A wise and erudite piece in a world of gob-shites, bed-wetters and happy clappers. I am always more informed after reading your articles - thank you. Please do keep them coming as they are a mental 'Rennie' in a world of re-actionary, self-important and polarised indigestion.
‘’Our excessive confidence in what we believe we know and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance. Overconfidence is fed by the illusory certainty of hindsight.”
It’s like I was his study subject!
I think passion and yearning play a big part. For whatever reason a football club can become so ingrained in our psyche that we offer thoughts or opinions that are often unreasonable or plain stupid, formed by a burning desire to see it do well.
In future, I’m not responding to any TF articles until the season is finished and I can use hindsight. This season it would be that we shouldn’t have bought Elanga or Wissa (and maybe even the BFG). And maybe have shook hands with Eddie and his team around Christmas.
And maybe next season I’ll be saying what a load of shite hindsight is and how well the aforementioned have all done 🤞
Not looking forward to Sunday at 5-fucking-30pm. Lose and it’s another stinking result against a bottom 3 club. Win and I’m back home on a train full of probably relegated Hammers.
Ha! I think we all are, Mark. Yes, I'm sure you're right. Interesting to think how that passion is an inhibitor to slow thought. The intuitive post-match rant has its place too!
Really good read Matthew - techniques applicable to so much of life, but especially football. In a world of snap judgements on social media, rent a gob pundits and “fan” media, it’s nice to read something like this that acknowledges, “hey it’s not all black and white.”
(Although in Newcastle’s case, it is…until we play away.)
Hats off, Matthew. This is the best thing I have read on these pages in ages... certainly this season.
And thanks for the heads-up on the Daniel Kahnemann book. I'm normally a crime fiction sort of guy (although I'm currently engrossed in Logical Chess by Irving Chernev). I will have a shot at Thinking, Fast and Slow next.
Excellent article. One small problem with the theory is that there is no such thing as complete knowledge of a situation so when do you stop gathering evidence before reaching a conclusion? Or do you never stop gathering evidence and adjust your thinking accordingly?
Good question. I think the answer is probably that you acknowledge what you don't know and make suitably modest claims about the provisionality of your conclusion.
The wider point he makes is that quick intuitive thinking is essential in life and works well in most contexts. We couldn't function without it.
Good article but I rather think the horse has already bolted regarding the wish for slow thinking & more considered responses to our performances & sport/life in general. And I’d suggest that horse has bolted rather faster than our slow German horse moves forward with the ball. Though he isn’t a cart horse & I think the reason we give him the benefit of the doubt compared to Wissa & Elanga is because he did actually start the season well & contributed goals. We are all willing him to get back to that again & are keeping our fingers crossed that it wasnt just a flash in the pan. I always think the rot set in regarding hysterical/immediate/sensationalist responses to football (as opposed to just moaning in the pub or writing letters to the paper) when Radio 5Live started & aired 606. I listened for a couple of years, mainly because Danny Baker was quite funny, but turned it off when David Mellor took over & it just became a lot of fans moaning & wanting managers sacked after 2 defeats on the trot. This was then jacked up even further with the launch of TalkSport & Sky Sports News. Then it became even worse as social media took hold. So, as much as I agree with you that slow thinking & considered opinion would be a huge benefit to NUFC, I’m afraid theres about as much chance of that happening as there is the very slow horses I back on a Saturday suddenly speeding up & winning me the ITV 7….
Totally agree with you on 606, Rob! Looking positively, I guess it means a place where you can still read 900-word articles on NUFC at least has some rarity value!
Tremendous read. The useful safety catch of our own thoughts being the acknowledgment we could be wrong and may not have all of the available facts and there are different ways to interpret what we’ve just seen. Excellent stuff.
Excellent and thought provoking article Matt. Not sure this slow thinking will catch on in the current madness of social media mind.
Excellent article as ever Matt, I’m looking forward to the sequel running fast and slow by Elanga and Woltemade, my thought is that Eddie actually is trying to evolve and will probably get there , but our summer recruitment remains crucial to top 6 prospects
Running, Fast and Slow - very good!!
Great article Matthew. It epitomises why I love reading TF rather than other social media coverage. Intelligent, informed, thoughtful and well argued. Thankyou!
Thanks, Jon! That's great to hear and is a large part of what we try to offer here. Not that we're immune to a therapeutic post-match rant!
Excellent piece Matthew. I will read it again and reconsider it all ;).
The bit about bias is particularly relevant with people exonerating Hall because he was played on the wrong side and blaming Pope for the goal because he stood still. It's actually what they're coached to do in those situations- make yourself big.
Laters
I’m guilty of that bias. I’m more forgiving of Big Nick than I am of Elanga & Missa Wissa. Because I like him & feel sorry for him! There’s no logic to that.
Good stuff. As you say there are two teams out there every game. To hear some people talk there’s only one team on the pitch.
Great article. Interesting and thought provoking. I have to say that I’ve thought long and hard about Woltemade throughout the season and always come to the same conclusion - he’s not suited to Premier League football. His lack of agility, aggression and pace mean that he’s playing catch up. Literally.
Agree.
I feel fully vindicated by your article. I have been slow of thinking for years. Who'd a thunk it eh?
Excellent. I hope everyone employs a bit of slow-thinking on Sunday, in what is now the beginning of our rebuild, but do-or-die for West Ham. Great stuff Matthew.
I always enjoy reading your pieces Matthew but I'm afraid you've discombobulated my old brain on this one. I'm sure Kahneman was top man in his field but football is a simple game. Complicating it has become a trait of modern life and in my mind you're doing exactly that by applying the findings of an eminent psychologist to a group of men kicking a ball around. I hate what football has become and much prefer the old days when we went to a match, discussed it in the pub afterwards, read the Football Pink then watched MOTD. No pundits talking shite just Kenneth Wolstenhome commentating on the action. Not passing on his opinion upon us just commentating so we could make our own decisions. Read about it next morning in the papers, particularly the Sunday Sun, talked about it at work on Monday then nowt until the next match. No psychologists, no pundits, no fucking Sky, no keyboard warriors etc. etc. Bliss.
By the way what would Kahneman say about working people voting for a man who intends demolishing most of the things they have fought for over the years.
Fair enough, Paul! I've got a lot of sympathy for that view. I was never happier than on the last bus home on a Saturday reading the Pink!
Maybe the point is that if people are going to comment in public (pundits and social media), it would be nice if they thought about it and acknowledged how little they know first. Most pundits never watch nufc play but talk about us as if they're experts, trotting out the usual ill-informed cliches. Silence would be preferable, you're right.
As for your last question, I think populism probably depends entirely on triggering those short circuits of thought which ignore the difficult questions.
It’s ok. Starmer will be gone soon
A wise and erudite piece in a world of gob-shites, bed-wetters and happy clappers. I am always more informed after reading your articles - thank you. Please do keep them coming as they are a mental 'Rennie' in a world of re-actionary, self-important and polarised indigestion.
Fascinating, Matthew.
‘’Our excessive confidence in what we believe we know and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance. Overconfidence is fed by the illusory certainty of hindsight.”
It’s like I was his study subject!
I think passion and yearning play a big part. For whatever reason a football club can become so ingrained in our psyche that we offer thoughts or opinions that are often unreasonable or plain stupid, formed by a burning desire to see it do well.
In future, I’m not responding to any TF articles until the season is finished and I can use hindsight. This season it would be that we shouldn’t have bought Elanga or Wissa (and maybe even the BFG). And maybe have shook hands with Eddie and his team around Christmas.
And maybe next season I’ll be saying what a load of shite hindsight is and how well the aforementioned have all done 🤞
Not looking forward to Sunday at 5-fucking-30pm. Lose and it’s another stinking result against a bottom 3 club. Win and I’m back home on a train full of probably relegated Hammers.
Ha! I think we all are, Mark. Yes, I'm sure you're right. Interesting to think how that passion is an inhibitor to slow thought. The intuitive post-match rant has its place too!
Absolutely.
Ps, I’m not related to hundreds/thousands of Hammers!! I meant relegated.
Really good read Matthew - techniques applicable to so much of life, but especially football. In a world of snap judgements on social media, rent a gob pundits and “fan” media, it’s nice to read something like this that acknowledges, “hey it’s not all black and white.”
(Although in Newcastle’s case, it is…until we play away.)
Hats off, Matthew. This is the best thing I have read on these pages in ages... certainly this season.
And thanks for the heads-up on the Daniel Kahnemann book. I'm normally a crime fiction sort of guy (although I'm currently engrossed in Logical Chess by Irving Chernev). I will have a shot at Thinking, Fast and Slow next.
Cheers
Excellent article. One small problem with the theory is that there is no such thing as complete knowledge of a situation so when do you stop gathering evidence before reaching a conclusion? Or do you never stop gathering evidence and adjust your thinking accordingly?
Good question. I think the answer is probably that you acknowledge what you don't know and make suitably modest claims about the provisionality of your conclusion.
The wider point he makes is that quick intuitive thinking is essential in life and works well in most contexts. We couldn't function without it.
Good article but I rather think the horse has already bolted regarding the wish for slow thinking & more considered responses to our performances & sport/life in general. And I’d suggest that horse has bolted rather faster than our slow German horse moves forward with the ball. Though he isn’t a cart horse & I think the reason we give him the benefit of the doubt compared to Wissa & Elanga is because he did actually start the season well & contributed goals. We are all willing him to get back to that again & are keeping our fingers crossed that it wasnt just a flash in the pan. I always think the rot set in regarding hysterical/immediate/sensationalist responses to football (as opposed to just moaning in the pub or writing letters to the paper) when Radio 5Live started & aired 606. I listened for a couple of years, mainly because Danny Baker was quite funny, but turned it off when David Mellor took over & it just became a lot of fans moaning & wanting managers sacked after 2 defeats on the trot. This was then jacked up even further with the launch of TalkSport & Sky Sports News. Then it became even worse as social media took hold. So, as much as I agree with you that slow thinking & considered opinion would be a huge benefit to NUFC, I’m afraid theres about as much chance of that happening as there is the very slow horses I back on a Saturday suddenly speeding up & winning me the ITV 7….
Totally agree with you on 606, Rob! Looking positively, I guess it means a place where you can still read 900-word articles on NUFC at least has some rarity value!